OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA      OR KADMA

                                                                        
                                    

                                                

                

                    

                                               

                                      

   
 
                                     

  

   Be patient and read everything.                                                                                                                                         Thus you will understand…

 The content of this page is provisory.

It presents general facts which will ulterior be developed in a more elaborate and punctual format. It also contains generalities regarding the basic purposes of Or Kadma Group, points of view which will be the subjects of future debates. Momentarily these will be accommodated on the mIRC channel #or-kadma. For those who desire to participate at these debates and eventually become a member of this group it is important firstly to assume the rules of the channel.

For the idea presented here to take life all of you are needed…  

Any association of the concept promoted by this Group with any of the conspiracy theories intensely promoted by the media, especially in the last years, would be a serious mistake, which might prejudice the demarche we are proposing and the possibility of a constructive debate. Those who emit such theories start from a false premise which is based on the idea that Conspiracies and Conspirators do exist. Actually the circles that promote such theories are part of the same structure and vector of influence which they identify with the source of the conspiracy. The trend imposed by the conspirators is very well conducted and has as goal to ridicule a certain approach of social, political, religious, philosophical and cultural phenomenon. These theories have been the source of inspiration of many Attitudes and political movements which have severely affected the history o humanity in the last 200 years. We are clearly detached from such attitudes. The group is composed by reasonable people with an educational structure which is better classified as atheistic; they are not involved in any political, religious or any other such kind of activities…

We only desire the Truth.

Don’t situate us in any conventional norm.

We are not to be found there. We just try to be everywhere… We are trying to give life to ideas not kill them. We basically don’t have enemies because we start from the finding that there isn’t US and THEM. There aren’t THE GOOD ONES and THE BAD ONES and most important you never know on what side you are born in. You can be on the Winners side or the Losers just as well, no matter how skillful you are. History is written by Winners … and literature by losers. But remember! Places are changed all the time… This perpetual alternation conveys history its movement. About WHO or WHAT drives these things, about this immanent logic of history which suggests an INTENTION, a DIRECTION of history… about all of this we are talking here and now.

 And Behold!                                                                                                                                                                                  We do not deny anything, we are only trying to affirm. We are what we are … Or Kadma!    

                                   

 

Arcana  publicata vilescunt:
et gratiam prophanata amittunt.
Ergo:
Ne margaritas obijce porcis
seu asinus substerne rosas…
                                                (Johann Valenti Andreae ,  Die chymische des Christia Rosencreutz , Strassburg , Zetzner ,1616 )
 

Argument

 Willingly or not, Conscious or not, we are the instruments, the pieces and at the same time the victims of the present type of culture. We are both the wound and the knife, the victims and the executioners of a type of behaviour that we continuously blame and just as well bring homage to.

Everyday, every hour we self cultivate the dependence towards the shapes, norms and customs that mark this kind of culture- totally born out of it’s own inabilities…

Everyday, every hour we self cultivate the dependence towards the lamentable comfort brought by it, making them a fetish, glorifying the virtues of the technological progress,  the level of civilization and comfort brought by it and full of vanity the virtues and superiority of the social system and the current relations between humans as a direct result of the Progress.   

Thus we are educated to see the World in a certain way, with the anthropocentric superiority our way of thinking promotes, a way of thinking tributary to the moral-religious principles of the institutional beliefs, and we refer to the concept of INSTITUTION as a bastion of coerciveness and to BELIEF as a sum of the imposed persuasions which limit the direct knowledge:

-    on one side of the creationism which imposes the human model as the final product of the Creation,

- and on the other side, the positivist, Newtonian-Cartesian, mechanical, Darwinist evolutionistic  way of thinking,  which feeds human arrogance and convinces us all that we are Unique and that we are the final product of Evolution…     

We are educated to see History as a product of Divine Creation- thus consuming from the start the need of debate, or as a product of a linear succession of events, subjects exclusively of hazard, humans or a dialect of the confrontation between the social, economical, political etc… forces, which strive to evolve from inferior to superior  and as any quality jump in history it is the result of an accumulation of values…and tensions…

Actually the DIRECTION History has had from the beginning until now , the basic rules it has been subjected to, has nothing to do with social, economical, political, strategic, military interests of the profane world of the masses as we are taught to believe…

  Anyways, these Laws cannot be explained in the language and terms general accepted by the Profane, them being incompatible with the norms of the so called common sense (the space of the ortho-doxa) specific to all official Cultures. History is submissive to some strict rules that express the interest of some oligarchic structures which existence was and will always be occulted.  

In return the masses will totally assume as a general trend the Direction imposed by this Instance, being convinced that these interests naturally express the human requirements of the époque… These oligarchic structures are just as well as human as can be, they compliment themselves as being hermetic, they are subjects to an Instance identified as being the SYNARCHY which is the residual component of a superstructure of power marked as being Vectors on Non-human Influence and which direct product is History in it’s total and complexity, from its origins until now… 

These vectors are not of human nor divine origin..

The rules, which these oligarchic structures are subjected to, are the Rules of the Initiation and the interest of the members of this structures gravitate around INITIATION.

From common people, with whom we cohabit: clerks, secretaries, teachers, diverse intellectuals, artists, people employed by particular or state companies up to magistrates,  officers, grand people of science and culture, politicians and presidents or monarchs, they all struggle to become members at least with their name- of some more or less secret Societies that promise the INITIATION.

Once they get there they find out that Initiation is echeloned in degrees of depth.

  Part of them continue with enthusiasm the “initiating” road as this echelon justifies the depth of the secret it will be revealed tot hem in the end. Others live the experience of a big disappointment but continue their ascension for the reason “who enters cannot leave” or just for the sake of it, or being blinded by the perspective of enrichment, using Masonic structures which can be identified with the lever of Human Power to achieve goals just as human.  

Another category of disappointed people start to pour their bitter by exaggerating or minimizing the importance of Masonry or even the importance of Initiation (See the Eco case).

There are also some that ambition, social position or genealogical affinities drives them to the top of the Mason hierarchy (Scottish Rite, M.O.F. , York, Rotary, etc) and once they are there they find that the Big Secret is “Nothing” or that everyone knows it ..

Few are those whom after reaching the terminal degrees of some Masonry and also an old age realize that the real road is just starting but for those biologically is too late… Thus all structures of societies are caught in this Game of Initiation, at any level, dragging cruelly and cynical in its sweeping carousel the entire Profane world. 

The entire History is based on the rules of this game, being itself totally its result..

OrKadma proposes to offer the INITIATION eluding the arbitrary rules of this game. Bu before explaining how this is possible we have to clear what is the real nature of INITIATION.         

The real goal of Initiation is Enlightenment which proposes to surpass the actual condition of the human being and the recovery of a supposed Edenic state anterior to the fall of human into History. In the Judeo –Christian principles the present human is one fallen in the Manifested History as a consequence to the Adamic Sin, The haughty desire of the protoanthropos, of that Adam Kadmon that through analytical Knowing to accede to divinity to become like God the creator, to usurp its primacy in the act of creation, this is the sin identified by the judeo-Christian culture. This sin has exiled the human in a History which bares the stigma of an anti paternal obsession which perpetuates from generation to generation carrying the desire for rebellion, the desire to overcome the state of second creator, from the beginning until now- as a driving factor of human transformation to what he is.

Illumination as an Initiating will is translated in laic terms as being the amelioration of human condition through the performance of the perception instruments of the Existing Reality in the purpose to establish a more direct connection with it, in the purpose of a Total and Unmediated Knowing.       

  This Illumination is the result of the Aspirant appropriation of an disciplina arcani  of a very strict and rigorous theoretical and practical system.

We are starting from the finding that throughout History were developed as many initiating systems as the number of cultures that existed, religions and local traditions have succeeded thus the original meaning and the basic goal of initiation was lost in symbols and sterile and empty metaphors…    

 Actually every culture (regarding each of their aspects religious, political, artistically, philosophical and social) have developed as being exoteric residual components carved upon a profound esoteric, initiating lode. We can also observe that each of these esoteric Traditions, all the initiating systems, are developed as different approaching methods of a singular Original Initiating Model, a First Paradigm, a sum of techniques and knowledge from which all the esoteric Traditions have been borne, which in return have generated concepts, Models of World representation, religions, philosophy, political beliefs, cultural and social events.    

Salvation, Enlightenment, or Knowledge through logos, intellect all these desiderates preached by Great religions, or laic science, are actually profane metaphors which regard what is at the end of these INITIATION…

Seen from a perspective drained by the principles and biases of the positivist way of education and of any kind of mysticism, if we suggest ourselves that through a mental exercise to modify normal perception of space and time, trying for just a few minutes through a maximal objectivity, detached, like an outsider, to watch the entire history process also condensing the retrospective unroll of the historical stages to the length of a short movie or a commercial we will discover that histories entire  course of events follows an absolute logical route, strictly following the unroll of a complexity of stages whose cycle (corsi e ricorsi) suggests a motivation, an intention, a Direction, an ending beyond local, community, kind, religion, ethnic  interests, it surpasses historical times, each époques trend vector, the frames of ephemeral evolution based on human weakness, the cultural, social, economical, political, military-strategic local or global interests or of any leading structures in a certain historic moment.  

If History has a Direction, an orientation, and those who direct it have a purpose, a finality and logic to their actions, it’s strictly related to that something at the end of the Initiation…  In essence Initiation represents everything that is related to human condition, everything that conditions humans by their own origin. The entire human behaviour conscious or unconscious –desires Initiation

Any tentative, intention to define Initiation, and the initiating process, has to appeal to the fundamental problem of the human beings ontological condition, to the problem of its origin, of its physical-ontological present state seen as a direct result of what humans have been given to through their origins. The motivation and goal of Initiation is that of re-establishing the state before humans fall into history, of reinstating a direct, unmediated relation with the entire Reality, of resuscitating perception and implicit Total, integral and integrating Knowledge, perception which esoteric Traditions and Great religions have attributed to the proto anthrop, the adamic human, to that assumed edenic state before The Fall, to that monistic state before The Fall into dual, fractured perception of Reality, to that harmonious relation with Nature and Divinity… actually of coexisting with the Entire Reality, the Holone.             

 

                                      

    

The esoteric Traditions and Great religions as well insist on the fundament idea of the existence of a physical-onto-cognitive net superior state which is anterior to the present one considered to be degenerate, Fallen…

On another hand, present science, still tributary to the paradigm biases of the positivism –modern anthropology, genetics, psychology, archaeology is rapidly heading towards that conclusion in the attempt to detach from the explicative state were the much too dogmatized evolutionist anthropology has failed.

Thus evolutionism – which stated human’s lineage from some species of primates through the process of mutation, genetic recombination and natural selection sets the beginning of the anthropology process in the TRETIAL about 15-20 million years ago…thus the first “monkey-humans” and afterwards the first “human-monkeys” who lived about 3-5 million years ago. According to evolutionism, the factors which have determined the species of plants and animals were primal only in the first stages of the process thus evolutionists recognizing the limited effect of the natural factors. They state, though, that little by little the natural selection had been limited and completed by domestic, social-cultural (incest prohibition, exogamy, the instauration of the isolated), pathological  factors etc. without giving any plausible explanation for such a mutation towards unnatural.  

In the anthropological process two important fazes can be distinguished:

  1. The process in which the first hominidization traces appear marked by the emergence of the pre-humans like Australopithecus.
  2. and the process of hominization, in which the Homo habilis Homo erectus, Homo neandertaliensis appeared, the process finished in the cuaternal and through out it several primitive (prehistoric) human types have lived until the appearance of the present shape of human (Homo sapiens) along with its races about 85-90 thousand years ago.    

Along with the so called missing link appears the problem of the evolutionistic dogma…

The idea of a net superior physical-onto-cognitive state anterior to the present one is exemplified also by the disproportion in the chronologic rhythm of evolution of the human civilization (of material culture, social relations, and especially technology) in the last 7-8 thousand years, from Neolithic until now, against to the moment of human apparition 80-90 thousand years ago… 

If the degree of civilization is measured by the possibility of evolution of the material culture, production means, technology (no matter if we are talking about silex tools or silicon measuring instruments…!) what stopped the human 15, 20 or 30 thousand years ago to actually develop a material culture and a certain type of technology in the same rhythm he did in the last 5-6 millenniums of known history, given the fact that is supposed that the human who lived 20-30 thousand years ago was identical with the present one, was also homo (sapiens?) with the same physiologic construction, mental structure and with the same needs…

What did the “caveman” awaited for almost 100 thousand years to develop a recognizable material culture, a minimal technology, when the premises for such an evolution existed then just as they do now? For perfecting the efficiency of an axe made out of a less resisting stone is not necessary to wait a millennium to replace it with a better one, using more resisting materials and a more intelligent binding. Human resourcefulness has been the same given the same needs and conditions. Climacteric mutations don’t justify at all the lateness of the process contrary they accelerate it.   

Physiological inabilities for direct adaptation to the environment, the sudden loss on the evolution scale of these qualities that make each specie to adjust perfectly to the environment they habit in, the considerable diminish of sensorial abilities and thermal equilibrium completely differs humans from the rest of the living and determines its necessity to create a specific, artificial habitat which compensates all these inabilities… So everything that we are calling material culture has appeared having as background the need for prosthesis, replacing, compensating exactly those abilities that the state of civilized being has amputated. 

What determined the “caveman” after 80 millenniums to get out of his cave and build pyramids…The chronological disproportion is much more obvious as 7-8 millenniums of civilization (which essentially presumes the evolution of technology and social relations) represent the equivalent of a drop of water in an ocean if we report it to the scale of the whole evolution or if we take as a reference point the ending of the anthropological process…and not to mention that the real technological leap has occurred in not more than 300 years.

                                       

INITIATION is the reverse action (a sort of reverse engineering) of the process that caused our present state, the fallen state. What is called in most Traditions the Fall (of human into History) is actually a reflection at a human scale of a cosmic “event” or better said of the process in which Total Reality receives a state of Manifestation.

It is insisted on the fact that if we take as a reference point the present state of the human being                             (that of homo sarkikos) the entire Creation has suffered a Fall. Or better said, along with the fall of humans in the state of dual, fractured perception of the Real Existing, of the Total Reality- the image of this Reality reflected in our conscience through our perception-limited by our existential structure (dual, fractured, divided) has suffered a deformation pursuant to the deform way in which we perceive it.

Actually Total Reality, The Holone, God (in mystical perception). The entire Creation is how it is… Is Existence, which cannot be annulled because nequaquum vacuum isn’t empty, non existence doesn’t exist. The perception of non-existing is a periphery attribute of Creation.

It’s an attribute of the Manifested state and autonomic to it.

Total Reality is holomone or teonome, it’s infinite, infinite dimensional. One of its dimensions is that Manifested, (God as a verb) and then Reality receives a state. A periphery state of Manifested Reality is the state of autonomy. It implies among others proportion coordinates like space and time which actually are not dimensions but reference domains, domains from which perspective a certain state of existence can be appreciated, reference points for existence in an Autonomy state subordinated to the Total Holonome, teonome Reality. The Manfested Reality it’s a residual component of the total reality, just as residual is also the autonomic existence of the manifested reality.             

The fall of human means actually the fall in the state of opposed autonomy-from its subjective perspective- of the teonome state in which he was, state which he cannot interpret… Any appreciation of Reality can now be made from the autonomy state of the being who perceives it, thus the reality reflected by the autonomic being will receive properties according to the Model of its ontological structure. Thus from the perspective of the autonomic being Reality will receive a specific form, not because Reality is like this, but because this is how it’s perceived. The Fall of human means the fall in this state were the World is perceived in autonomic components-objects (meaning separate existence), perceived in return as being exterior and separated from the being that perceives them. The world is seen dissociated in the conscience of the subject that perceives it. The ontological, original fracture has driven it to the differencing of the perceived reality in one interior to the Being and another exterior- The being and the reality being perceived as entities coexisting separately

The fall represents the perception of the Difference. The difference between Self and non Self, the present humans dilemmatic Subjectivity is the one which values differently the perceived aspects of existing Reality…

All that is beyond the finite (which perceives thus exists) in Interpreted as non Self.

The idea of negation is borne from the ontological necessity to identify it, to measure the Non-Being, meaning everything that is beyond the Being, of everything that is beyond the autonomic subjective existence.   

Reality reflects in our conscience through sensorial perception, being doubled by what we call the capacity to analyze and synthesize, attributes specific to human. REPRESENTATION and THINKING along with ANALYSIS and SYNTHESIS indirectly reflect it.             

IF REALITY IS REFLECTED IN OUR CONSCIENCE THROUGH SENSORIAL PERCEPTION-PRIMARY - THEN THAT MEANS THAT THE LIMIT OF THE INSTRUMENTS FOR ACCESS MARKS THE LIMITS OF THE REALITY, WE PERCEIVE IT AS DEFINING A SENSORIAL-PERCEPTIBLE REALITY BEYOND WHICH LIES ONLY INTUITION.- 

REPRESENTATION AND THINKING AS SECONDARY PSYCHIC PROCESSES PROCESS INFORMATIONS TAKEN AGAIN FROM THE SENSORIAL LIMITES FOND OF PERCEPTABILITY THUS THIS LIMIT CANNOT BE ELUDED BY THEM…

INITIATION HAS AS FINALITY THE RESTAURATION OF THE UNMEDIATED BOUND BETWEEN THE AUTONOMIC BEING AND TEONOMIC REALITY.

 

                                          

The essential goal of our demarche is that of rebuilding the Original Initiation Model, the final point of every Human Quest, The source of every aspiration that justifies our existence.

That is why our Groups activity spreads over three major coordinates:

 1. Obtaining a database, as vast as possible, which will represent the necessary documentation in elaborating a methodology of study, research and interpretation (dried of any jaundiced consideration), synthesis and analysis of acquired data, starting from the principles of interdisciplinary and equidistance. 

Obtaining a vast database which will represent the object of a interdisciplinary and synthetic study on which the methodology anterior elaborated to represent its Criteria of Evaluation. We propose as a debate Theme- the implementation of a soft which will permit global reinterpretation of a sum of data in order to modify the intrinsic relations and functions of the entire perspective on which was anterior structured according to a scenery imposed by the Criteria of Evaluation…     

 note:

The fundamental principles which will guide the research activity must be structured on what is essentially and eternal in the great hermetic and Pythagorean works. Each member of the group must assimilate the idea that EVERYTHING IS RELATED TO EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING BINDS IN A PERFECT HARMONY WHICH CAN ONLY BE PERCEIVED BY ANALOGY, that the world in its ensemble can only be understood as a COINCIDENTIA OPPOSITORUM, as a superposition of contradictions and not as a permanent conflict between them. FOR ONE THAT WOULD DESIRE TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND NOT (CONVENIENT) TRUTHS IS IMPORTANT TO BE CONTINUOUSLY SKEPTIC AND BELIEVE IN EQUAL AMOUNT…   HE MUST RISE ABOVE GOOD AND EVIL, EXISTING AND RECOGNIZED CONTRADICTIONS BECAUSE EVALUATIONS LIKE GOOD AND EVIL ARE RELATIVE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHICH REALITY IS SEEN. ALL THAT HAS TO BE DONE BY ONE WHO DESIRES THE TRUTH MORE THAN ANYTHING IS TO MODIFY THE WAY HE PERCEIVES REALITY TO A SYNTHETIC AND HOLISTIC ORIENTATION  THE IMAGE OF THE HOLE  IS FOUND IN THE PART. This way of seeing the world is the only one capable of becoming a correct instrument for Knowing…

 The theoretical component of the activity of the Group sustains the Practical one Project Paradigm-10.

 2. Project Paradigm -10 represents the most advanced direction this Group has undertaken- It is advanced because of the principles from which it starts and as well because of the practical methods being used. Finalizing this project depends on a sustained concentration of efforts made by those who want to subscribe to it.

 Basically it’s about performing the entire Initiating process in a Virtual Reality which will be a substitute for the existing conventional systems.

The idea from which we have started and which justifies the Project is very simple. If now Initiation either has lost is original meaning or is confiscated by Masonic instances and structures- the access to it is conditioned by the pyramidal control system on which give functionality to this structures and on which they are based.

Thus project Paradeigm-10 has proposed itself to elude the rules of this system and offer the possibility for everyone to have access to Initiation. A solution most appropriate to this kind of initiation is the development of an On-line RPG (first-person) based on the engine of the very well known shooter Far Cry of those from Crytek, and work at this project is in full deployment. Also OrKadma Group has already brought some improvements regarding the graphical aspect by implementing most recent solutions regarding polibumpmapping, lightmapping, shader, etc which brings Virtual World closer to fotorealism.    

In this project we have as a technical purpose the improvement of the graphic and physical engine and the modifying of the net code which will permit o massive access by users. In fact is not a game in the usual sense but creation of a very advanced Virtual Reality through interactivity and sensorial immersive aspect, fact which will convey to the one that enters it no more no less than the Initiation. This thing is very possible and work for it, regarding the testing component is very advanced… Behold some details which will explain what is all about:

The scene that harbours the INITIATION is The Third Temple, a virtual interactive, totally navigable, 3D reconstruction of the Hierosolomonit Temple. Around this construction rotates the entire history for the last 2500 years. Its measurements and the legend of Hiram Abif represents the core of the Masonic initiation. But we go further …

The third temple represents the absolute synthesis of all the esoteric Traditions, of all the initiating schools that have existed until now, Architectonic speaking this must represent the synthesis of all the stiles that have been developed until now, but keeping in mind to respect perfectly the Measures (Naometry). If the Cabbalistic system has once represented the perfect synthesis of what consisted in the esoteric Traditions until that time, we develop this route by improving it with elements that have appeared different from it, which were inspired by kabala or were a source of inspiration to it… Here appears the Pythagorean school, the hermetism, alchemy, also very important are the Golden Ratio-Fibbonaccies series and secret elements of the gothic medieval structures of the Operative masons…         

The Role-playing element on which the virtual space, created by us, is structured is the most appropriate for the concept which is the base of the Project Paradeigm-10. The RPG itself is conceived from pure initiating rules…

The one who will enter the Edifice will have access to everything related with Masonic Initiation up to the 33rd degree in a co participation way. This will simulate electronically all its Ordinary sequences. It will be for the first time when this thing will be possible and accessible to everyone, different form the conventional System now controlled by Masonry. The initiation offered by Or Kadma will be accessible to anyone with the condition of having the necessary equipment (if possibly a complete VR Kit) and most of all… ambition, patience, calling and especially desire..

What is The Project really bringing is the possibility to pass the ordinary, speculative degrees and accede to the real initiation. That means that once the Masonic degrees are passed the access to the most important challenge that Present Human can answer will be opened. Entering the interior structure of the temples foundation which shelters Paradigm-10 This is the final step that Present Human must take for acceding to Enlightenment, to Recovering.

It is actually about following a route marked by the ten Sapphires bounded by twenty-two channels which correspond to the twenty-two hieroglyphs of the Hebrew alphabet, and the Major Arcana’s of the Tarot.

The sensorial and mental confrontation of the Present human with the ten archetypes- which are actually the source of the our blockades which limit the access to Total Knowledge-which has as result exorcising ancestral fears which lead to the Fall… Physiologically speaking it means the reactivation of the Latent Potential of the subconscious which has encrypted in symbols all the information filtrated by sensorial-perceptibility and of the genetic level in which is braided the entire fond of information accumulated on the Philo genetic chain from the beginning of life until now …exploring this virtual initiating space must be realized with the help of a complete VR equipment to have effect…

It seems pretty fabulous and utopic this project but it’s not quite so.

 The elaborated program and the Tests done until now make us to positively think of its accomplishment.      

But for this, support is needed financially and logistically, having in mind that this is not a commercial Project. Making a team, even limited in quantity, but where every specialist quality in game programming, 3d graphics, level design, map design, scripting etc to be decisively. It would give unexpected results if the team subordinates its efforts to a program and austerity very well established. All lies in strategy, organizing, working concepts and especially… money.                                                                                                                                                           Here intervenes the third coordinate essential to our demarche:   

  3. The constitution of a financial fond capable to sustain the theoretical component and the practical one.             For all of this to achieve consistence and quality, some levels of the activity must be sustained by specioalists in this domain.                                                                                                                                                                       Otherwise anyone is welcome to participate in this if he proves seriousness and capability of doing it.    

 

                                            

 

We put here some images P-10 showing thus exterior aspects of the construction of the Universal Temple

 

                                  

Visit our irc channel #or-kadma

 The rules of our channel are simple:

-as much as possible not to undertake subjects that are not related to the profile of the Group

-the tone used will always be polite and with respect to the person participating in debates. Trivialities of any nature will be punished directly by kick and/or ban according to the case.

-any attitude that has as result the prejudice in any way of a person that enters the channel will also be punished directly by kick, ban, suspend, remuser according to the case.

 

 

   
     Visit our irc channel #or-kadma                                                    

                                            

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